We all have our own measures of success, particularly when it comes to Financial Independence. Some of us aim to retire a bit early, while others are just looking to build a solid financial foundation. Then you have the true outliers: those who achieve FIRE – Financial Independence, Retire Early – by age 28.
We are, of course, referring to Aussie FIRE co-host Dave Gow, and he has become a bit of a legend in the Australian FIRE community (Hayden's words, not Dave's). Not only because he reached Financial Independence so early, but because he did it without a cushy investment banking job or a big inheritance. Naturally, this kind of achievement sparks inspiration and a lot of curiosity from FIRE-seekers.
So in this Q&A session, we dive into the details you’ve been asking about. What’s the real cost of maintaining a FIRE lifestyle? How do your financial habits shift when you’re in a relationship? And perhaps the biggest question of all: what can we learn from someone who’s already walked the path of FIRE?
Just so you know, the aim here isn’t to tell you what to do or suggest that Dave’s way is the best way – far from it. Everyone’s situation is unique, and what works for one person might not work for someone else. But sharing Dave’s approach might give you some useful insights, or at least satisfy your curiosity about what happens after you’ve “made it.”
“What are your annual expenses?”
From Dave: Right now, we're tracking to spend about $60,000 this year. This figure includes our personal expenses and the interest on our mortgage. But if you add in the principal payments, it bumps up closer to $70,000. However, I tend to see the principal payments as more of a savings measure since rather than an outright cost. After all, that money contributes to our net worth. So, depending on how you look at it, the final number might vary a bit.
Having said that, the interest portion alone is around $20,000 a year, give or take, depending on the balance and rate fluctuations. We’re dealing with a variable mortgage, so that number can change, but $20,000 is a solid estimate for now. And to clarify: yes, this is purely for our personal home, not including any investment properties. We keep those properties in a separate bucket with their own income and expenses.
Outside of the mortgage, our personal expenses settle in the $30,000 to $40,000 range. A good chunk, probably about a third, goes toward groceries and dining out. We’re not shy about enjoying the occasional meal at a café or restaurant, but we keep it in check. The rest trickles down to typical expenses: travel, health, car expenses, and the odd splurge on something we enjoy.
Over the years, I’ve detailed our expenses on the Strong Money Australia blog annually. So if anyone’s curious, you can dig into those breakdowns. There's nothing too surprising there, though. We don’t have health insurance, so that’s one less cost on our list. And in past years, we had a noticeable expense category for our dog’s cancer treatment, which, sadly, isn’t part of our budget anymore.
So, all in all, there’s nothing extravagant in our budget. It’s modest but comfortable – about $800 a week for the two of us. It's a bit more than it used to be, but that's just how things evolve over time.
“Is your reason for skipping private health insurance that you don't need it now and you'll deal with it later if necessary?”
From Dave: Great question, and it's exactly as simple as that. Our FIRE income is below the threshold where we’d be getting a Medicare Levy surcharge, so there’s no financial pressure to take it out just to avoid that penalty.
Now, that’s not to say we’re against all insurance. Personally, we look at each insurance type and ask ourselves: is this something that we genuinely need right now? If the answer is no, we’d rather keep our money invested, working towards Financial Independence, instead of paying for coverage we might never use.
Obviously, our situation might change down the line, and if it does, we’ll reassess. But for now, skipping private health insurance is just one of the ways we keep our finances aligned with our current needs and goals.
“What has your relationship with credit cards been?”
From Dave: It might surprise you to hear this, but we’ve never had one. And it’s not because we’re against them. We know there are folks out there who swear by the benefits, and some are really into maximising points systems. But the time and energy it takes to learn all the details and hop from one card to another just didn’t sound like something we’d want to do.
For now, we’re happy that not having a credit card hasn’t held us back in any way. It’s just one less thing to worry about as we focus on the bigger picture of our financial journey.
“What would your FI number be today?”
From Dave: For us, if we’re looking at our current expenses, which sit around $60,000 a year, our FI number would be roughly $1.5 million. This means that with our current investment portfolio, we’ve got that covered for now. But the thing is, these numbers are based on our current situation in which our investments are paying for a comfortable lifestyle. So, the FI number for someone starting fresh might be lower than what we’d need now.
With that said, if I were starting from scratch today, I wouldn’t spend as much as we do now. Back when I was still grinding in a full-time job, the goal was to hit freedom as fast as possible. This meant keeping expenses lower and investing more aggressively. That mindset would still apply today.
So, is our FI number typical for an Aussie couple without kids? Well, that’s a tricky one. Everyone’s FI number varies based on individual preferences, goals, and how much people want to keep working versus retiring early.
But all things considered, we’d say we’re right in the ballpark of what’s common among Australian couples aiming for FI. If we were starting over today, with the knowledge we have now, that $1.5 million target still feels about right for us.
“What does your income stream and assets look like?”
From Dave: We’re balancing both property and shares right now, which makes things a bit messy. At the moment, we’re gradually shifting more towards shares. Anyone who’s dabbled in both knows that shares are just far simpler and hassle-free. There’s no admin, no tenants to deal with – just regular payments hitting your account. And we’re really looking forward to moving towards that simplicity.
In terms of income, what we get from rental properties can vary quite a bit depending on mortgage and other expenses. For instance, we have some mortgages – roughly around $800,000 in total – that are still locked in at a 2.3% fixed rate. But those rates are set to expire soon, and when they do, the mortgage payments will jump by about 4%. We’re looking at around $32,000 extra a year in interest.
So, while rents have gone up, that extra interest is going to sting. Right now, the properties are slightly positive in cash flow, but once you factor in repayments, they tip negative. From a tax perspective, they’re still positive , but the rate hike will likely push them further into the red.
Other than that, our share income is sitting between $50,000 and $60,000 a year right now. There are still a few properties to sell, and until we do, our share income isn’t fully built out. We’ll probably need more than the typical 4% rule since capital gains tax and transaction costs will nibble away at our returns.
My partner also works part-time, bringing in some extra income, and there’s whatever I make from the blog and books. If we decided to kick back and do nothing, we could technically live off the dividends. But once the properties go negative with the rate changes, we’d likely need to sell them. The proceeds would go into shares, and at that point, the dividends alone would cover our expenses indefinitely.
Fortunately, the extra work we do beyond our investment income has helped us hold onto the properties longer than we might have otherwise. If we didn’t have that income, we would’ve sold the properties sooner, possibly missing out on a better selling opportunity. It’s a balancing act, but it’s working for us so far.
“Do you put money into Super?”
From Dave: Given our unique situation – earning from rental properties, dividends, and side hustles like writing and speaking gigs – we’re not your typical PAYG employees. This means we don’t have compulsory super contributions flowing in automatically. So, we don’t plan in terms of the next 20 or 30 years until we can access super.
At the same time, the last seven years without a traditional job have taught us that trying to plan out that far ahead can be almost impossible. We’ve seen how unpredictable finances can be. Markets crash, economies shift, and life throws curveballs – like COVID, for example. With so much uncertainty, it’s hard to justify locking money away in super when we might need it sooner rather than later.
That said, we’re not completely ignoring the future. It’s just that right now, our focus is more on optimising our current financial situation. Any surplus cash we have gets invested right back into our portfolio – whether that’s in shares, property, or other assets. The way we see it, that money is working for us regardless of where it’s parked.
Interestingly, this year is the first time we’re facing a tax bill. The rental properties did well, and low interest rates helped keep costs down, which means we owe some tax. If we start hitting higher tax brackets in the next five years, it might make sense to take advantage of super’s tax benefits.
For now, though, we’re focused on what we can control and staying flexible with our plans. Super could become part of the strategy if the conditions are right. But we’re not locking ourselves into anything just yet.
“What’s the poorest you remember being?”
From Dave: It was mid-2007, and I’d just moved to Perth. I was 18, fresh out of home, with only $800 in my bank account and an old car that was probably worth about $4,000. No insurance on the car, either – just hoping nothing bad would happen. I was on the other side of the country, a couple of hours behind my family, and very much on my own.
That $800 didn’t go far. As soon as I started buying food and covering the basics, I realised how quickly money could run out. I knew I needed a job immediately. Thankfully, I found one within a week and started working after 10 days. But even then, the feeling of being broke didn’t just go away.
I clearly remember the first month of working. After all that effort, I ended up with no savings. It seemed like every bill hit at once. I was working hard, but it felt like I was giving up all my time and energy just to keep my head above water.
That was a turning point for me. It was the first time I realised I needed to figure out a way to not just get by, but to actually start moving forward. That experience is what lit the fire under me to start saving and eventually investing. It wasn’t easy, but looking back, that struggle was what pushed me to where I am today.
“How did being in a relationship change your financial position or goals?”
From Dave: We often hear about the obvious benefits of being in a relationship, like splitting living costs, sharing a car, and so on. And yes, that definitely helps. But the less obvious part is the compromises that inevitably come with merging two lives. Now you have two sets of values and priorities to juggle, and making financial decisions isn’t always easy.
For instance, I’ve always been the kind of person who gets laser-focused on my financial goals. When I’m locked in on something, nothing else matters. My partner, on the other hand, has a more balanced approach to life. It’s what I would consider ‘normal’ way to live.
Obviously, you can’t just operate with tunnel vision and sustain a happy relationship in that way. So for us, that meant learning to blend our individual priorities and finding a way to move forward together.
That doesn’t always happen, but you have to do your best to try and achieve that anyway. For example, working as many hours as I wanted isn’t really an option anymore. I need to make time for us, or there wouldn’t be an ‘us.’
Now, in case you’re wondering: would I be better off financially if I’d stayed single? That’s an interesting thought…
On one hand, when my partner and I joined forces, she actually had more money than I did because she was a homeowner and had been at it longer. So, yes, teaming up put me ahead of where I might’ve been on my own. But on the flip side, having to compromise and shift priorities have probably balanced that out.
If I were to compare the two paths, I’d say I might have been slightly better off financially on my own, purely from a numbers standpoint. But honestly, it’s hard to say how that would’ve played out over time. And sure, I might have a bit more money in the bank, but it’s quite possible I’d also be more exhausted from pushing myself too hard.
Final thoughts
As we wrap up, one of the things that stood out during this conversation with Dave is just how normal and relatable it all is. We’re all just regular folks, trying to figure out Financial Independence without any secret sauce or magical shortcuts. It turns out, most of us are just out here are doing simple things that make sense for us.
And that’s the whole point. You don’t need to have parents who can hand you the keys to a fully paid-off house, or a golden opportunity that fell into your lap. You just need a plan, some patience, and the willingness to take those small, steady steps forward.
Everyone’s situation is different, so there many be nothing here that’s appropriate to your own. But by peeling back the curtain on how Dave approaches his finances, hopefully you’ve gained a little insight or maybe even some comfort.
And who knows? Maybe we’ll flip the script in the near future and dive into Hayden’s finances. Until then, drop us a line at hello@aussiefirepod.com or hit us up on social if you have any questions or ideas for future episodes. Lastly, if you enjoyed this chat, feel free to share it with someone who might find it just as interesting.
Thanks for reading, and happy investing!
Dave and Hayden
